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Carmel' I have to throw my 2 cents in also,...I agree with your assessment in the first paragraph,...How he attracts his harem is of no concern to me,..(though too I am concerned he is being taken advantage of)...if of the age he has a right to play as he wants.

That being said I am going to set it out, I perceive this party at the moment becoming a victim of what I perceive as cyber bullying.  It needs to stop. Completely unnecessary.

I say this with a concern that the party being spoke of may  not have the social skills, ... capacity to deal with the this antagonistic attitude being  thrust on him.

Hence I never named the "party" , I think what we also need to bare in mind is there are many that have been named and insulted many a times on forums and don't even know its happening has they don't enter the forum. Maybe this is something for achat to address? Maybe when reffering to a absent individual their name should not be allowed?

I still remember when through a chain of people I was told one woman on my lovers list was a man.

The problem was that one of those who were proclaiming it had already earned his name on my ignore list as a guy who couldn't take gay for an answer. Since the "woman" in question was already WAY too aggressive I wasn't too terribly attached (and yeah that could be called a sign) and I just decided to avoid the whole mess.

The guy in question, who was on my ignore list, then got posted here by a woman I actually am still quite fond of (even though we haven't talked in months) because he had pulled a SERIOUSLY twisted mind fuck on her with another party.

I can feel comfortable about my decisions to this day, but it honestly felt like I was using a skill set I developed in high school.

The greater truth though is that ANY time you get groups of people together similar dynamics develop, and while you hope people will be able to act like adults it always seems to be a matter of how disappointed you send up rather then whether or not.

I've found all I can do is try to hold myself to a high standard. So I fight to avoid names unless referring to say a specific point or post here on the forum.

I guess it could be expected that some would act like assholes here like any other place on the internet. The problem with that is that feelings easily gets involved here and can then hurt people real bad.

 I know what you mean  , one of them tried that shit with me !  believe me that didn`t go over too well with me ! made my blood boil , those kind of control freaks guys  lack  something in their real life`s  to be pulling that shit ! what i can`t believe is the girls that  are degrading them selfs with that crap !  This subject really gets me riled up , in Real  I help women   with  abusive situations . why should life be any different in cyber , there`s the good ! the bad ! and the very very  ugly  !  Respect has to be showned and earned .  I for one will never be owned  AGAIN !!!!!  FREEDOM ROCKS !    SIGNING OFF       > Strong Mined + Free Spirit < = Sunny

@Island... girl go girl go (and a tip of the hat)

Adventurous souls with imagination can be so much more entertaining..

Echo the sentiment that names are best not used,...fact is the majority do not read the forum,..let alone post.

"stay away from my girls"...well, we all know who that is. the guy has hundreds & like he's really going to be able to tell when someone is with one of his *girls* 

& maybe ramrod doesn't buy girls, but he does buy outfits for his dommed girls to wear. isn't that the same thing?

...3 more sweetie...

I personally wouldn't know if Ramrod buys outfits for "his doomed girls" I don't know how anybodyelse but him and the girl/girls would know? It's hard to comment on something when it's not proven. Another point would be, if Ramrod indeed does buy females clothing then he would be one of many men that do ... so the question would be why focus on Ramrod?

 Basically to rephrase the question- would be asking if any guy gifts a girl isnt this a form of owning? My answer would be no to that

"dommed" girls, not "doomed" 

it is proven...i know he does

he buys the girls outfits specifically for domming purposes/related to a domming session in the room...not because they *mean* something to him in any way, like a friend or lover would buy a girl something as a sign of friendship or love or whatever

you focused your comment on him, so i commented on that

I am unsure if being on Ramrods lovers list means I fall into the catogory of one of his "dommed girls" but it seems you claim to  know more then me about his alleged spending habits /reasons behind it and rooming games   

And please forgive me for the previous typo ... I think it was because Ramrods name was mentioned and I got all excited *blushing again* ........ For my blood pressure and the benefit of others I think It's time to move on from him and back to the topic in general

If they take it too seriously,"doomed" might be appropriate.

bobbler I think the issue has gotten off track,..the precedence of a Dom' outfitting his subs would not IMO be unwarranted.

What I perceive your true issue is that you simply abhor the practice. Done something to provoke a response from a Dom',...

I have many friends who serve a master/mistress, whether I like it or not, we have to acknowledge some personalities around here aren't necessarily falling within  social norms. There is a wide divergent practice,...in some cases deviant,...I can't allow myself to judge.

One aspect I keep in mind is in dealing with these is to clarify the boundaries before pushing too far. For some, that Dom/sub relationship is simply personal play,...these banner flags,...a means to stroke the Dom's ego,...other take it with a more serious mindset. I am careful in the latter, to clarify boundaries of acceptable behavior on my part. Adhere to those standards it represents a covenant between us. My integrity is rooted to that because,...well that is immaterial, I am simply bound to respect that covenant.

Janine describes that relationship with far greater eloquence then I could.

Bear... I'm not sure what you are trying to say about a Dom outfitting their subs, but it could be a simple fact that if he wanted them to wear something they did not have then he took it upon himself to provide it. If that is the case then I would call that warranted. It's like if you wanted a lover to wear a specific costume/outfit anywhere else that they didn't have, you could at least provide it for them rather then expect them to get it.

But the honest truth is that unless Ramrod or one of the women he engaged in the practice with are the ones speaking then it's hearsay.

Carmel... the relationship between you and Ramrod is for you and Ramrod to define, and no one else. If there is confusion it would be good to clarify it, but that's good in any relationship D/s or otherwise.

On a broader level (and Bear used this term, but I'm not calling on him specifically by using it) "social norms" or the very word "normal" is more just everyone agreeing to hide anything that may fall outside that agreed upon mask.

Heck, cybersex falls at least on the edge if not past the edge of "normal" for most people, and every last one of us is guilty of that.

Janine you are right to call me on this,...I'll amend this in the morning at the moment I am too tired to properly respond.

and I had a typo I corrected.  a DOM outfitting his Sub should not be an issue. No more than gifting a friend to purchase a particular dress.

Any reference I make as to social norms is strictly directed at this community. My own experiences here have pretty much stripped a fact that there are a lot of deeper layers of fantasy behind the masks of people here, often these are not revealed to each and every partner.

If you don't like the practices then don't approach those playing it,...and if you do, respect first that there may be limitations there, whether or not you agree with it. It is their play,...

Thank you Janine,...you cut to the heart of the matter like I knew you would.

   I had a feeling it was something like that Bear, but I also figured it I didn't ask you wouldn't know I was confused.

And yeah, as long as it involves consenting adults there are far more important things in the world to worry about.

Janine I totally agree with what you have said, the thing is like I said in my original post on this topic... We all need to be a little tolerant to other players and what floats their boat. I mean wouldn't this place be boring if the members were all here for the same thing? We may has well all just spend $99 dollars on the misonary position.... lay back.....and  play some Barry White ... Maybe then we would be considered has big old romantics or normal...