Obituary Thread. RIP.

[hukk]

Very, very tragic. I'm actually watching President Obama address the Nation right now, regarding Mr. Mandela's death.

A true champion of civil rights, and all around good human being, his legacy in abolishing apartheid in South Africa will be remembered.

Here's to you Mr. Mandela.

R.I.P

[zoerink]

A song to remember him…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgcTvoWjZJU

[Lover]

A great person, a great personality. The world has lost a very special man today but he taught us never to give up and believe in the good. You always have benn an idol for millions of people and your spirit never will die.
Mr. Mandela, RIP – as you did all your life.

[tangoracer]

R.I.P   A great Man    Nelson Mandella

He made the world better place to live and spent far to long locked away from the world.

He is finnaly Free from all persecution

God has him now and has a great new Angle to look down over use all  

Bows head for a minute in silence  

[hukk]

A song to remember him…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgcTvoWjZJU

*smiles*

Good homage to Mendela Mr. Zoe'. Here's to you Mendela. We'll meet again, one day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHcunREYzNY

[hentaiboy69]

A great man who spent his whole life for his nation and his brothers and sisters! No one will never forget about him!

[All_for_you]

Bows Head

Rest In Peace  Nelson Mandella

The world is a sadder place today it has lost a great man

God rest his soul

[hukk]

2)  I saw a documentary once about this great man and his release from prison. All the young black South Africans were ready to take up arms and looked to him to lead and avenge the wrongs that had been afflicted on him and other victims of apartheid and he looked at them and said quite simply

“Go to school.”   And a civil war didn't happen

^This.

Sorry, but I have to admire this guy. I know if it was me, I would damn well make sure to inflict some sort of bodily harm onto my captors. Each waking day, my mind would be preoccupied on how to best beat the utter crap out the people responsible for keeping me locked up.  For him to walk out of there and seek cooperation among all South Africans says a lot.  I couldn't do it. He did.

[bluedenim]

A sad day.
But let's be glad he lived, where would South Africa and the world be today without him?

[Covems]

The hero of the anti-apartheid struggle was not the saint we want him to be.

The image of Nelson Mandela as a selfless, humble, freedom fighter turned cheerful, kindly old man, is well established in the West. If there is any international leader on whom we can universally heap praise it is surely he. But get past the halo we’ve placed on him without his permission, and Nelson Mandela had more than a few flaws which deserve attention.

Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. At his trial, he had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilising terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists. Here are some highlights

-Church Street West, Pretoria, on the 20 May 1983.  19 killed, 217 wounded.

-Amanzimtoti Shopping complex KZN, 23 December 1985.  5 killed, 27 wounded.

-1985 – 1987 At least 150 landmines on farm roads.  125 killed

-Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court, 17 March 1988.  3 killed

-Durban Pick ‘n Pay shopping complex, 1 September 1986. 

-Pretoria Sterland movie complex 16 April 1988. 

-Johannesburg Magistrate’s Court, 20 May 1987.  3 killed, 10 wounded

-Roodepoort Standard Bank 3 June, 1988.  4 killed, 18 wounded

In his book  Long Walk to Freedom Nelson Mandela wrote that as a leading member of the ANC’s executive committee, he had “personally signed off” in approving these acts of terrorism.  This is the horror which Mandela had “signed off” for while he was in prison – convicted for other acts of terrorism after the Rivonia trial. The late SA president P.W. Botha told Mandela in 1985 that he could be a free man as long as he did just one thing: ‘publicly renounce violence’. Mandela refused. That is why Mandela remained in prison until  Pres F W de Klerk freed him unconditionally. The bottom line? Nelson Mandela never publicly renounced the use of violence to further the ‘cause of freedom.

Tellingly, not only did Mandela refuse to renounce violence, Amnesty refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence, even though as in ‘conventional warfare’ a degree of restraint may be exercised.”

Nelson Mandela was the leader of Spear of the Nation [MK], the terrorist wing of the ANC. MK murdered countless people and advocated mass genocide of all white people in Africa. MK also slaughtered members of South African tribes who had gained independence or were in the process of gaining independence under the Apartheid plan.

While Mandela was in prison, his wife Winnie Mandela ordered followers to carry out numerous gruesome killings of black people she deemed to be “race traitors.” Many of the victims were women or teenage boys. They were killed by being burned alive with a gasoline soaked tire around their neck.

Yeah… rest in peace Nelson Mandela

[Brandybee]

It is true, what he did or was responsible for was terrible but in ones life, a time comes that says …  what have I done? What have I become?
What can we do to make the change for the better …

To make that change, to make it better for future generations … we have to learn from the past.

We have to make sure, that it can never deteriorate into such hatred that terrible, terrible crimes are committed.

The British  and the IRA are a prime example.  Both sides realised nothing was being achieved except death, destruction, hurt and hatred burning deep.
There are strong feelings on both sides.  We both paid a heavy price and both were big enough to say we want peace now at any price.
So, we released the terrorists / murderers from our jails  to walk free,  one of the costs of peace. 

Its not to dwell on the terrible crimes they committed. I'm sure our armies cost them dear too.

This is the time to say,  lets talk, lets negotiate. Violence is not the answer. We can find a compromise, we can find the answers.  Because not to, is too terrible to contemplate.

Nelson Mandela committed crimes and spent 27 years in prison.  He preached for peace after and people listened.  He did change South Africa.
He left this earth on a positive note and a legacy that I hope will bring  peace to Africa.
I wonder how many lives would have been taken or lost if he hadn't.

That's what I will remember him for and the hope that one day,  world peace and Goodwill  will prevail and respect is given to all.

God Bless the voices who succeed in that change and are brave enough to challenge the wrongs in this world.

And God bless interpreters in schizophrenic episodes.   

[Anonymous]

And God bless interpreters in schizophrenic episodes.

the only thing I haven't seen yet is what he actually said   ** runs off to check youtube…

…oh well, there is at least one fake but this sounds more legit…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-DxGoIVUWo

[hukk]

I think Covems has touched on the media's tendency to warp and distort facts in order to fit their own political ideological agenda or cater to the viewers ideological viewpoints. Not that this is necessarily a cardinal sin, since most find it difficult to be truly objective when reporting on anything. Still, certain facets of the whole picture get lost and often times what you have is a case of “he with the biggest loud-speaker” will be remembered most. In the case of Nelson Mendela, the image of a non-violent pacifist has become the predominant characterization rather then as Covems and other more hardline opponents have pointed out, a man of questionable morals, when evaluating his participation in certain organizations or actions.   

However as BB touched upon, it is important not to diminish his involvement with the dismantling of apartheid in South Africa. I don't agree with BB to not dwell on the past. Look at it. Observe and study it because if you do not, a skewed version of history will arise. It may be regrettably unavoidable, as some point out but their has to be an effort to paint a full picture of a given situation. And the picture we see here of Nelson Mendela is of a complex figure who ultimately favored non-violent methods in order to end Apartheid but who was by no means a pacifist. I think this quote sums him up best:

“I must deal immediately and at some length with the question of violence. Some of the things so far told to the Court are true and some are untrue. I do not, however, deny that I planned sabotage. I did not plan it in a spirit of recklessness, nor because I have any love of violence. I planned it as a result of a calm and sober assessment of the political situation that had arisen after many years of tyranny, exploitation, and oppression of my people….”

He was a pragmatist. A man who saw bloodshed as an avoidable and regrettable consequences of War in order to end a brutal apartheid system that regulated a portion of the population as second class citizens. He was no Martin Luther King Jr. or Gandhi, as many have pointed out, but an astute political analyzer who was able to put aside guerrilla tactics when it mattered most. Instead of plunging the nation into a race based civil-war as many feared, he instead united them. Instead of exacting some sort of political revenge on Afrikaans by stripping them of power, he allowed them to remain in power. Many simply say these actions were just shrewd maneuvers on his part. Maybe. But what you have to ask yourself is this – how many people could have performed the same actions Mendela performed? Considering he was imprisoned for 27 years. Considering the hostile environment he was raised in. Considering the immense political pressure from his followers to exact revenge.

The answer is not many. Most would have caved under pressure, and yet he didn't. He held fast, and sought a peaceful resolution of Apartheid at a crucial juncture in South African history. He may have been flawed, but he was also a man who didn't allow passion to dedicate his actions. He calmly lead, following -as BB pointed out- a peaceful path that many thought was impossible at the time.  For that, he does deserve to be praised

[Covems]

The end justifies the means.

Mandela inherited a stable, law-abiding, prosperous, economically impressive, agriculturally self-sufficient, corruption free nation, and turned it into a turbulent, lawless, violent, murder-prone, economically stagnant, corrupt third world mess.

My thoughts are with the 68,000 white and black victims of the ANC genocide in South Africa, and genocides everywhere, men women and children.

It is to them that I say, rest in peace.

[bluedenim]

Covems………..  This forum is not the place air political disputes, but you are so wide of the mark with your sweeping lies about South Africa that I cannot let them go.

Apartheid South Africa was a horrendous murderous state with secret and state police far worse than the feared Gestapo, where do you find these lies and how can you believe them?

Whites used to run over blacks with their cars for fun… use them for target practice… and the police would do nothing because the black people had no rights at all, less even than the black slaves on the Southern cotton plantations.
Slavery in the gold & diamond mines.. where all the extremely rich white people made their fortunes, most of which are still intact by the way, was common with people dying every day , but nobody cared because black lives were seen as having no value.

Not long after Nelson was released, he disassociated himself from Winnie and what she had been doing.

It would have been so easy for Nelson to raise a bloody civil war and create the same sort of State that Robert Mugabe has created, but instead he chose and fostered a reconciliation. It will take generations to heal the deep wounds in South Africa, it will not happen in 2, 3, 5 or 10 years.

You sound like a member of the KKK or an embittered Boer, why would you want that?

What then would your opinion be on the atom bombs that we dropped on the Japanese? Did they mean that we, the US were the bad guys?

Please, if you wish to spew such vile untruths, do it at a Nazi rally, not on this site!

[Author]

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