Janine’s Dungeon

[Jay98980]

Hello there Janine and Sinnnn.
Firstly thankyou Janine for a great thread pity it's not being utilised by many people but i guess that's because they're only after the sex side of a D/s relationship and while Achat does seem more geared towards that with a little bit of imagination it can be alot more.
Second Sinnnn your Master's Creed post was awesome and something I hadn't ever really thought about but after reading it i agreed with every statement without having to think about it.

Ok to introduce myself names Jay (lol) am new to the scene and have found that I have natural ability for Dom and was lucky enough to find my precious who saw that ability and nurtured it.
A few thoughts on my perception of a D/s relationship. Just because someone has the ability to command doesn't mean a thing if it's not controlled properly  and as sinnnn said in one of her posts it's really the sub who is in control by the simple fact of trusting you enough to give you that control. It's a huge responsibility and is something that should be cherished above all else. For someone to want to commit themselves to you to that degree takes alot of trust and love and is not something to be squandered or used lightly as it's a precious gift like no other. The public perception is that its all whips and chains and fear (i know that's what i thought) the reality I have found is that it's probably the most loving relationship you can have and the most rewarding for all concerned nothing else compares really.
Learning what it takes to truly be a dom is an exceptional journey one that i have only just taken my first few steps on and to be honest one that even in cyber world should be taken as seriously as if it was real life. Hmmm not sure I've said that quite right but i hope you get my meaning.
Looking forward to further posts here

[Janine Dee]

I absolutely get your meaning. As far as online verses in person there ARE obvious differences, both in the practical (things like safe calls and meeting in public places), as well as the implementation (talking/typing someone through a fantasy scene is FAR easier then making it happen in person).

The one thing I would say as you start that journey is to be careful not to believe the hype.

Dominants are still people. Many submissives expect us to somehow be perfect people, to know exactly what they want, when they want it, and to always be ready to fulfill it for them. You will have times you have no idea what it is they are after, and are not obligated to read their minds to find it. You will have times that you may know damn well what they want, but are just not in the mood to give it.

I would just suggest that you make sure to remember that the Dominant gives just as much. Perhaps not in as obvious of ways, but I know it was one of the more important lessons I learned, and I learned it the hard way.

But when all else fails you can always come on here, for those who know, or can simply listen.

[Janine Dee]

On training…

In the “Owning” thread on the “Say” board the conversation has veered a bit onto Dominants setting rules and giving commands for their submissives, and while I was tempted to post this there I thought that I would rather have it here for easy reference while not pulling the thread further off topic.

Before talking about training though I feel the need to clarify levels of play (please note this is LEVELS of play, not TYPES). They aren't set in stone, but rather where people tend to fall.

The first is Light Play. This is when a couple may decide to bring in a blindfold, fuzzy cuffs, or those heart shaped paddles. They are using the items, and one has to be using them on the other, but the roles of Dominant and submissive are either not expressed at all, or are expressed with giggles.

Then would come Play. In this one is the Dominant, and the other is the submissive, the roles are understood, but once the session is over they are set aside (SOME training may happen, but it's light). This is where a great many fall, and they cover a great deal of the spectrum. I knew a pair 100% in the lifestyle who were both switches, so they would change roles as the session suited them.

Then you move Past Play. THIS is where training comes into place. This is where people have made the conscious, adult decision to want a order and structure that Dominance and submission allows, and they want it 24/7.

Many would object to that notion, but that's often a great deal of why people may want it. What I would call a proper submissive CAN make their own decisions, but desires not to. While what I would call a proper Dominant doesn't want to simply control another as much as they want to provide direction and guidance.

That direction and guidance is where training comes into play. Let's ALL remember that this happens with the full and informed consent of both parties.

But now here are more of the nuts and bolts of training as I know it.

Now training can include both sexual as well as non-sexual duties. Say a submissive who is taught how to make Master's coffee just the way he likes it, make it at a certain time, and then bring it to him with the paper at a certain time. After which she gives him a blow job while he reads his paper and enjoys his coffee.

Another example I heard was of the submissive who would come over to his Mistresses house and clean it top to bottom before a play session.

I heard the first story from a submissive who was smiling as she said it, because she didn't have to worry or wonder what the one she loved wanted. She wasn't just told, she was taught what to do to make him happy, and adored doing so.

It's a level of communication that most couples would be terrified of because women would be terrified they were being seen as weak while mean would fear they were acting like ogres, but by just TALKING they found what made them both terribly happy.

The second story I learned from the woman who taught me and the kicker to it is the SUBMISSIVE is the one who asked to do the cleaning. HE loved looking at Mistresses now pristine house, knowing he did good, having her telling him just how well he did, and then rewarding him with a play session.

Those demonstrate one of the bigger keys to training. It should be modeled to the one being trained. In the owning thread I mentioned my hip high boots and their effect while Bear mentions black silk lounge pants having a similar effect for his mindset. So while they are both articles of clothing they are notably different between the two of us.

Whatever form they take though I personally split them into two categories, General and Specific.

General training is the type that I would use with a new submissive who I am teaching how to serve. The easiest example would be her collar. Many Dominants will keep a submissive wearing a collar all the time in private, and pick a necklace with an appearance that the submissive can fix on. (Sinnnn provided an example with me at the end of the Theater thread on this board.)

Even if the submissive is not kept collared 24/7 the putting on and taking off can also be a VERY powerful trigger with either the submissive bringing it to their Dominant and holding still while it's being put on. (Symbolically giving their free will to their Dominant, and then letting the Dominant take it.)  To having the collar start out in the Dominant's hand, and say having the submissive kneel before the Dominant as it's put on. (Showing their acceptance that the Dominant has control over them.)

The reason they are called “General” is because they can be carried from partner to partner. There may be changes like the type of necklace a submissive wears out of doors as a collar, but their need of that constant reminder of their Dominant's presence is a constant itself.

“Specific” is just that, like the certain necklace a submissive might wear for a certain Dominant. Or that earlier morning coffee ritual I spoke of. The “General” ones are where training can come into effect with “Play” but “Specific” is where D/s relationships form.

A more specific example would be those beautiful black boots of mine. I've had submissives happen to see them while I'm getting ready for a night out, and confess just the sight of them got them wet because the visual image would trigger their memories of our play times together.

On the other hand if they are sitting next to my bed, and the submissive knows I'm in the shower she KNOWS we will be playing, and by the time I'm out of the shower the darlings have often been literally quivering. Without me having said a single word, touched them in any way, or even been seen directly by them since I decided I wanted to play.

(And yes, the setting the boots by the bed, and then taking a shower is a personal ritual/self-training.)

I will close this VERY long post by repeating that this all comes with informed, adult, consent. This is done by those who have chosen it, and who desire it.

[Janine Dee]

Words can hurt, but so can a riding crop, and I own one of those. The trick is the difference between a wave of sensation for your partner or an angry mark that will linger for days.

I used a riding crop as my example because it can be very intense when the submissive is in the right mind set, but when used casually is simply cruel.

Where a simple hand or a soft striker can be used for the playful swat on the ass the riding crop is a serious striker. Words should be treated with similar sincerity because even in vanilla interaction misunderstandings can and do tremendous damage to relationships. When you mix in the intense emotions of BDSM you are casting sparks on dry tinder.

Or as I believe Kathy Griffin said in one of her routines. It was one thing if a guy said “Take it you whore!” in bed, but she wouldn't accept that at ALL in day to day conversation, and while she said it to laughs it is a very real idea.

For some women the word whore is degrading, dehumanizing, making them more on the level of property. For others it is freeing, allowing them to cast aside old ideas on “ladylike” behavior. Giving them permission to be wanton, sexual creatures when everywhere else they feel they have to keep that part of themselves bottled up tight.

Now here, saying communication is essential is sort of silly, it is literally the topic at hand. Problems develop though because while the damage can be as deep as anything physical the stings of injury are virtually non-existent. They are so easy to miss that the person who's feelings have been hurt can many times convince themselves they just overreacted.

That however MUST be avoided, because hurt feelings will fester like any other wound. They can cripple relationships like a poorly set bone, and poison feelings like any infection.

They are just as real as any other injury. To be avoided if at all possible, and mended right away when not.

[bluedenim]

Wow,
This certainly opened my eyes. I'm not sure I can converse on the same level as you guys, but I'll try…..

At first I was very confused as I seemed to be so shallow, to misquote someone, I thought I only wanted “someone who knows how to swing a flogger”. I am neither a psychologist nor a psychiatrist to delve into my psyche as to why I need (needed) someone to “punish” me. I lost my mum 10 years ago and my Dad has brought me up and done a superb job, but when he punished me (physically and not very often and only from age 13) I never hated him for doing it but always derived some sort of security from it and afterwards actually found it gave me feelings I couldn't understand, which I later transkated into sexual desire. These became stronger but very difficult to explore with guys my age who are usually only interested in either a bj or “wham-bam-thankyou-maam” hence my long abstinence……
I used to fantasise (used to? who am I kidding?) about getting punished by all sorts of men and experimented with self-flagellation which only made me more unfulfilled.
I have learn't much in the very short time since joining this site and I'm sure that is what gave me the confidence to connect with my (I was going to call him current but that unfairly belittles him) bf.
Yes I was ecstatic that I had found someone who not only found me attractive and good company, but was keen to explore my kinky side. I have had some very erotic spankings and a coouple of “fun” ones, but recently he did punish me quite severely, going through making me cry, and the euphoria I felt afterwards was incomparable Whilst I did kick and cry out, why did I not just call a halt or move away? it was quite painful and left me with “lasting marks”
As has been said earlier and often, in reality it is the sub who (apart from the occasions where they unwittingly  fall into a trap as chillingly related to  us by Janine below) sets the limits and can only do it if there is tacit and implicit trust in the dom/domme  as so eloquently in Quinn's creed.
I now trust my bf to the extent that we have decided in the near future he will bind ma and gag me for the punishment he wonlt tell me about in advance. Whilst he may tell me how naughty I am and how much I deserve to be punished (and all the other cliches too!) he doesn't go in for verbal humiliation and (at least I don't think so at the moment) I would derive no satisfaction from doing chores for him, is that someting that one grows into? relationship-wise or age-wise?
I am still a terrible flirt and if I were to bump into her in rl would wiggle my ass at Janine just to provoke her into using her riding crop on me….. I can't explain that side, I just find it exciting…… What a slut at 19!
Thank-you for the guidance you have given me I will be watching this topic very closely in future.

[Janine Dee]

Oh blue honey, none of us ever start out knowledgeable. I feel that I repay those who guided me early on by guiding others.

I will say more in the morning, but I just got home from work,  and am far too tired for deep Domme thoughts, but I wanted to let you know I saw your post and will be replying.

[Adera]

I could never go as far a you have blue.

Btw, great thread Janine, very informative… though it's quite a while since I last read it all.

[Janine Dee]

Adrea dear, I actually re-read it just to get myself into the right mindset while I got myself caffeinated enough to reliably form multiple sentences. 

blue? The biggest trick to all of this is that there is no psychiatrist/psychologist who CAN define it all for you. From what you have said I would certainly say you have submissive tendencies, but much like my earliest Domme tendencies I still had to chose to act on them.

Obviously I did, and obviously you are, and you seem to be doing so safely, so you are doing very well.

The one area you seem unsure of is that it's going to be up to you to define what submission means to you.

You CAN grow into something, but you are never “expected” to. If you meet a Dominant who wants that you can agree to it FOR them, but the decision is yours. Like your clit bar with New. She may have put the idea out there, but she didn't restrain you and put it in over your protests, you did make the decision to do as she wanted you to.

Now by the same token you mention wanting to provoke me into taking my riding crop after you, but the way I've developed my style says I NEVER play angry. Even if I were to feel the need to punish you I would step away and bring myself back to a calm frame of mind before I'd do anything.

I'm not saying you are wrong, and I am not saying I am right. I am saying that we have different styles, and like I noted earlier in this thread people can be perfectly suited to their roles without being suitable for each other.

Like you've given wonderful examples of how you are defining submission for yourself I actually joined AChat to have a forum to explore submission away from the Domme role I (happily) wear, and while my Dominant side has certainly shown up here with certain girls  I also met Sinnnn, and I am DELIGHTED to submit to her. I trust her implicitly, and happy to give myself over to her completely.

But if you look at some of the threads she and I have here in Erotic Fantasies it's really very gentle in comparison to those things you enjoy.

Again however there is no right or wrong, but rather individual styles.

You and New both seem bi. So if she brought out a man to join the two of you that likely wouldn't be any sort of an issue. I however am gay, and if Sinnnn brought out a guy I would tense up, even knowing she knows that I could have a guy there, and even pleasuring her, but I wouldn't want him touching me. She however knows that and has never done that to me.

Yet again two Dom/sub couples having to radically different takes on essentially the same play event.

So beyond legal, mental and physical health concerns it's up to you to define your “right and wrong”.

[bluedenim]

The one area you seem unsure of is that it's going to be up to you to define what submission means to you.

  @ NGLike your clit bar with New. She may have put the idea out there, but she didn't restrain you and put it in over your protests, you did make the decision to do as she wanted you to.
Do you want to tell them spouse of mine?

Now by the same token you mention wanting to provoke me into taking my riding crop after you, but the way I've developed my style says I NEVER play angry. Even if I were to feel the need to punish you I would step away and bring myself back to a calm frame of mind before I'd do anything.
Janine, I wasn't asking you to whip me out of anger, no that I wouldn't do, when I said provoke, I meant pester like a brat or whatever it took, I wouldn't ask a stranger or someone I didn't trust to beat me, but I am being honest when I say that the idea of you giving me a few strokes with your crop does appeal to me, nothing more. I think NG has sussed me out and she should wear that T-shirt all the time.

[Adera]

Caffeinated, that's a new word for me.

Janine, Sinnnn tends to bring some humour into your play as well… so it's fun reading in many ways.

[Bear]

Though I never knew sinnnn outside the board, it was always a delight reading their exchanges…

best word of advise as  a newbie dips into this.. is communicate… make certain  the pace and depth of exploration is established….

[NewGurl]

The one area you seem unsure of is that it's going to be up to you to define what submission means to you.

  @ NGLike your clit bar with New. She may have put the idea out there, but she didn't restrain you and put it in over your protests, you did make the decision to do as she wanted you to.
Do you want to tell them spouse of mine?

Nope

Now by the same token you mention wanting to provoke me into taking my riding crop after you, but the way I've developed my style says I NEVER play angry. Even if I were to feel the need to punish you I would step away and bring myself back to a calm frame of mind before I'd do anything.
Janine, I wasn't asking you to whip me out of anger, no that I wouldn't do, when I said provoke, I meant pester like a brat or whatever it took, I wouldn't ask a stranger or someone I didn't trust to beat me, but I am being honest when I say that the idea of you giving me a few strokes with your crop does appeal to me, nothing more. I think NG has sussed me out and she should wear that T-shirt all the time.

[Janine Dee]

Okay, I don't know how things are between you two, and since you seem happy together it's not my place to comment.

And as far as my style… I play with good girls. I want girls who want me, and who demonstrate as much. When you get into the whole “brat” thing I'm always left wondering “Is she just playing she doesn't like it or is she really not enjoying herself?” If anything the threads Sinnnn and I wove on here helped grow and develop my style. So you can see me subbing to her the way I'd want to be submit to.

But again, no right, no wrong. Just personal styles. It's as much a matter of if you would enjoy my style of Topping as if I'd enjoy your way of bottoming.

[NewGurl]

Okay, I don't know how things are between you two, and since you seem happy together it's not my place to comment.

And as far as my style… I play with good girls. I want girls who want me, and who demonstrate as much. When you get into the whole “brat” thing I'm always left wondering “Is she just playing she doesn't like it or is she really not enjoying herself?” If anything the threads Sinnnn and I wove on here helped grow and develop my style. So you can see me subbing to her the way I'd want to be submit to.

But again, no right, no wrong. Just personal styles. It's as much a matter of if you would enjoy my style of Topping as if I'd enjoy your way of bottoming.

I feel that I am sending you the wrong message.  I love blue deeply and would never do ANYTHING, to harm her, physically or mentally. She is the reason I stay on this site and I miss her deeply when she is not here.

I pick on her alot in a roleplaying sort of way. I repeat, I couldn't and wouldn't do anything to really upset her.  Bluntly, I Love Her.

[Janine Dee]

New, Honey, I NEVER doubted that, ever.

What we are running into here is that difference in styles. Before that post you quoted I had assumed that there had been discussion in advance, when it looked like there hadn't been I clicked into Dungeon Monitor mode. Which is basically that both of you are okay with it, so even if it's not MY way it's perfectly fine.

An example from a play party would be when I saw a Dom using a staple gun on his sub. *I* was wincing more then she was so I knew she was okay with what was happening. I personally would never do it, but it was not, and would never be, my place to judge.

Heck, I don't even like to break the skin. Between the infectious nature of blood as a substance, of open wounds, scaring, healing rates… I make sure I leave the skin intact, but again I'm not right, and those who do break the skin aren't wrong.

Still, love need not be gentle, and I never doubted the love between you two.

[Author]

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