SHOWER WISDOM. A pondering…

[hothiro]

“When you’re joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it’s only that which has given you sorrow is giving you joy … and when you’re sorrow look again in your heart, and you shall find that in fact you are weeping for that which has been your delight”
Gibran Khalil Gibran

My mind was distracted thinking of these words during my shower last night trying to prove or disprove it … the more I think about it the more I realize it’s true!
But how?! … How can someone you love be both your happiness and sadness at the same time?!! … But again … I think it’s true.

What do you think?

[Bear]

I think it off… anything of value… a thing, person, idea will be seen with either end of the emotion. His comments imply there is potential for both… yet I am at odds with this.

Case in point… the birth of my chidren…  there never ever has been sorrow in that I have felt only joy… I cannot see sorrow there in their arrival.  Sorrow is a possibility but for a different reason… their loss… never for the fact of their birth, in that the concept is not related.  Their existence is exclusive of sorrow. Had they not been born… well I cannot see sorrow… they would have been unrealized only.

Joy is the fulfillment of an aspiration… sorrow a loss,… denial of fulfillment. We may feel sorrow permentently because of it's capacity of lack of fulfillment (as in death) as in permenet joy (as in birth) , each concept is exclusive of the other.  but in some matters sorrow can turn to joy as our desires are met. We find sorrow in lonilness..unrealized love… satisfied by temporary gain… lost again… do we sorrow over unrealized love? no we sorrow over the that which gave us pleasure now gone….

What brings us sorrow may be overwelmed when we focus on something other. I may lose a child… but my joy is that I had them.

When I focus on that… the fact of experiencing someone in our life… their loss is not lessened… only redirected.

His comments to me… poetic… but seriously off base.

[Brandybee]

Hiya Hothiro, welcome to Forum . Enjoy your time here and come have some fun in this mad village.

I think its more simple than that ….   I think to know and experience great joy, you have to know and experience great sorrow… and vice versa..

A little bit like  ”  It's better to have loved and lost , than never to have loved at all”    ie  Dont be an empty shell, for you will forget how to live to the full.

You have to experience both for your emotions to recognise what you are feeling… and it doesn't necessarily have to be the same subject that causes the depth of your delight or the depth of your sorrow.  Its about recognising what you feel because of the other.

ok,  I need a drink after that  lol   

[Lover]

Thanks Hothiro for sharing your thoughts. It's more philosophical but I like it and it's another progress for this forum.

For me it means joy and sorrow are two sides of one medail. Sorrow and joy only exist, because there is both.
In compare with rain and sun… you also can enjoy the sun when you know the rain and vice versa. No one can be happy if every day is a happy day – we ease to a situation and habit kills joy. Of course we don't wanna feel bad, don't wanna be sad. But only if we know there is sadness, there is sorrow, we really are able to enjoy joy and happiness.

I also see another meaning in these words. Sometimes we believe something that is happening is the worst that might happen… but in these moments we develop, we activate our power and strength, we learn – and make progress in our life. We get stronger. Sorrow is the first step to joy if you understand in this way.
We usually also learn from the mistakes we make, not from the success we have. Success involves the risk to get lazy, to have deadlock. Which is the first step to failure. Joy is the first step to sorrow in this way.

People wanna avoid pain and look for fun – this is the way our brain is working. Most of us try more to avoid pain then to search for fun (even if its hard to believe for some). So even in our brain sorrow and joy belong together. The biggest motivation we have is if we combine both.

[hothiro]

Hi everyone …. Sorry for the late reply I was out all day yesterday … Fridays are my getaway days ))
I see some deep replies … so guess I'll think it off in my shower today 

[hothiro]

I think it off… anything of value… a thing, person, idea will be seen with either end of the emotion. His comments imply there is potential for both… yet I am at odds with this.

Case in point… the birth of my chidren…  there never ever has been sorrow in that I have felt only joy… I cannot see sorrow there in their arrival.  Sorrow is a possibility but for a different reason… their loss… never for the fact of their birth, in that the concept is not related.  Their existence is exclusive of sorrow. Had they not been born… well I cannot see sorrow… they would have been unrealized only.

Joy is the fulfillment of an aspiration… sorrow a loss,… denial of fulfillment. We may feel sorrow permentently because of it's capacity of lack of fulfillment (as in death) as in permenet joy (as in birth) , each concept is exclusive of the other.  but in some matters sorrow can turn to joy as our desires are met. We find sorrow in lonilness..unrealized love… satisfied by temporary gain… lost again… do we sorrow over unrealized love? no we sorrow over the that which gave us pleasure now gone….

What brings us sorrow may be overwelmed when we focus on something other. I may lose a child… but my joy is that I had them.

When I focus on that… the fact of experiencing someone in our life… their loss is not lessened… only redirected.

His comments to me… poetic… but seriously off base.

===========================
Dear Bear thank you for thinking it with me …
I agree with most of your thoughts but in my opinion I don’t think it’s “Seriously off base” since at the end it’s in the answer to the question “would I feel really sorrow for anything I don’t love?!…”

Frankly your comment made me think a little deeper and I ended up with the thought that both feelings (Joy and sorrow) do not cancel each other “in fact I agree more with Lover that they are both sides of a medal”!

Your case in point I totally agree … in the birth of your children sorrow cannot be seen and GOD forbid their loss will never take away the joy of their birth but again “would you feel sorrow for someone you don’t love?”

[hothiro]

Hiya Hothiro, welcome to Forum . Enjoy your time here and come have some fun in this mad village.

I think its more simple than that ….   I think to know and experience great joy, you have to know and experience great sorrow… and vice versa..

A little bit like  ”  It's better to have loved and lost , than never to have loved at all”    ie  Dont be an empty shell, for you will forget how to live to the full.

You have to experience both for your emotions to recognise what you are feeling… and it doesn't necessarily have to be the same subject that causes the depth of your delight or the depth of your sorrow.  Its about recognising what you feel because of the other.

ok,  I need a drink after that  lol   

=======================
Bradybee thank you for your sweet stop-by and your warm welcome …
I’m glad that you are trying to make it simpler but not simple … having emotions and thoughts with the ability to express them is what makes us humans … if I understood you correctly you are saying that in order to recognize joy one should recognize sorrow … well yes I think that is true … further more I think that in order to appreciate joy one must learn sorrow..

Cheers ))

[hothiro]

Thanks Hothiro for sharing your thoughts. It's more philosophical but I like it and it's another progress for this forum.

For me it means joy and sorrow are two sides of one medail. Sorrow and joy only exist, because there is both.
In compare with rain and sun… you also can enjoy the sun when you know the rain and vice versa. No one can be happy if every day is a happy day – we ease to a situation and habit kills joy. Of course we don't wanna feel bad, don't wanna be sad. But only if we know there is sadness, there is sorrow, we really are able to enjoy joy and happiness.

I also see another meaning in these words. Sometimes we believe something that is happening is the worst that might happen… but in these moments we develop, we activate our power and strength, we learn – and make progress in our life. We get stronger. Sorrow is the first step to joy if you understand in this way.
We usually also learn from the mistakes we make, not from the success we have. Success involves the risk to get lazy, to have deadlock. Which is the first step to failure. Joy is the first step to sorrow in this way.

People wanna avoid pain and look for fun – this is the way our brain is working. Most of us try more to avoid pain then to search for fun (even if its hard to believe for some). So even in our brain sorrow and joy belong together. The biggest motivation we have is if we combine both.

================================
Lover thanks for thinking it with me and I agree with everything you said 100% …
Of course the subject does not apply on temporary pleasures as Bear described but on what I think permanent or higher state of emotion … perhaps Spinoza describes it better “By sensual pleasure the mind is thrilled to the extent of quiescence, as if the supreme good were actually attained, so that it is quite incapable of thinking of any other object; when such pleasure has been gratified it is followed by extreme melancholy, whereby the mind, though not enthralled, is disturbed and dulled” …

Between us my friend when it comes to love I don’t think it’s possible to learn from previous mistakes since it happens involuntarily but to say the truth even in a bad love experience we find tragedy that somehow feeds our soul

Thanks again Lover glad you stopped by …

[Lover]

Moshimoshi

quote]Between us my friend when it comes to love I don’t think it’s possible to learn from previous mistakes since it happens involuntarily
I didn't talk about love in this case but in general. Love is a very special thing

Part of a tale might fit to your quote.
A little bird fell out of his nest. It was very cold and the bird was too young to fly. He surely would have died. In this moment a cow crapped – and covered the little bird. Sorrow? But… as the cow pat was warm it saved the life of this bird…joy?

[sexilicious]

Thinking back on some of the friends I have made on here and other games. I would have to say that since this is where I have made the closest of friends and allowed them deeper into my heart, there are a couple of things that kind of go along with this thought. One of the first thoughts I think about is how if none of these closest friends who bring out the most delight in me are around or on I can sink into such a sad depression because my heart longs to have them around and be with me. On the other hand, when opening my heart up that much those who bring me the greatest delight can also bring the most saddest times because what we do together deeply impacts me and my feelings. At least that is my thoughts when it says to focus deep in your heart. Going deep inside where those special relationship lie, can and will bring the greatest delight in a persons life and also sorrow where it could even get close to breaking a friendship and sometimes it does.

[hothiro]

Thinking back on some of the friends I have made on here and other games. I would have to say that since this is where I have made the closest of friends and allowed them deeper into my heart, there are a couple of things that kind of go along with this thought. One of the first thoughts I think about is how if none of these closest friends who bring out the most delight in me are around or on I can sink into such a sad depression because my heart longs to have them around and be with me. On the other hand, when opening my heart up that much those who bring me the greatest delight can also bring the most saddest times because what we do together deeply impacts me and my feelings. At least that is my thoughts when it says to focus deep in your heart. Going deep inside where those special relationship lie, can and will bring the greatest delight in a persons life and also sorrow where it could even get close to breaking a friendship and sometimes it does.

=================
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Sexilicious
I know what you mean … and I think that experiencing these kinds of emotions and feelings filters-up your surrounding in a way that makes your delight more fulfilling and more lasting

Sweet of you to stop-by Sexilicious

[hentaiboy69]

Well, my friends…..about the words posted by Hothiro, i think we have a good example with Fannini!

it's real, when something or someone caught us so deep in our feeling, when we lost it or we found it's all a lie, happyness disappear and leave space to dadness and bad feeling!

But on the other hands, i don't think the opposite it's so true……or this is my impression! dunno why, but it's so hard to forget what hurts our feeling, but it's so easy to forget what make us feel good when it end! it's in human nature, maybe, being a little sadistic at last!? i dunno….

[Lover]

You're right HB, pain stays longer in our mind then pleasure. Pain almost is the stronger feeling and depper then pleasure. So it's easier to remember and to get back in this mood. Pleasure is not so “clear” and experienced so it vanishes…

But you're talking about the effect – we talked about the existing of both emotions and the connection between them.

[hentaiboy69]

I see……but Lover, from my point of view, the conseguence is the connection between them.

Of course those two feeling exist in everyone, but it's really hard to feel them at the same time, maybe just in some particular case.

[TightFit74]

for me pelasure and pain form something complete together. Just because they are the opposites of eacvhother, they enmforce eachother. As has been said before, without pain no pl=easure. But that goes the other way around. Without pleasure, no pain. We need to feel, see, touch opposing feelings to understand their true nature and what they mean to us. I would not want to live with either just pleasure or pain. They would both become dull..

It's these opposites that make life interesting, that form chartacter, are the basis of experience. And therefor I would not want to miss either of them. And that goes for all feelings I guess. In life it is a constant search for balance, going from one side to the other. Sometimes you are at one end of the spectrum, the other time at the opposite side. Both have their meaning and from both we can elarn and grow..

[Author]

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