What do you think about… The discussion thread

[hukk]

Most Americans are or should be aware of the past history the Union had with slavery. If you're making the argument that the U.S flag should share the same level of guilt and shame like that of the Confederate flag because of its association with slavery (or if you're making the argument that we should abandon all arguments that one is more righteous over another and simply enjoy the flags any which way we want without relying on past history), then I say I find a fault in your logic. 

The difference between both the Confederacy and the Union is this: slavery was only a part of the history to the latter, while it was the entire history of the former, because the Confederacy ultimately dissolved with the end of the Civil War. To use an idea from Sartre, “An entity is defined by what it does during its existence, and nothing else”. The Confederacy lived and died, and during its existence, always stood for the full-throat, violent defense of slavery. The U.S were and still is, given that opportunity to change, shift policies and correct mistakes much like every individual has that right to redeem themselves. Essentially, the U.S flag has the luxury to move away from past mistakes (in this case slavery) because it has survived long enough to correct those mistakes, unlike the Confederacy which doesn't have that same opportunity.

If we were to go by your logic (again the one I think you are insinuating) then all flags, be it American, French, or British would carry no honor or virtue because of their past historical mistakes. These nations and the flags that represent them, are still able to aspire to the ideals that make them virtuous.

I am sorry if that doesn't seem fair. If others may feel that the Confederate flag should have that same right as other flags to shift away from any negative symbolic connotations and focus more on the positive connotations it does have. To diminish the subject of slavery -one of the defining legacies the Confederacy has- is an attempt to rewrite history. 

[xShezawolfx]

http://www.confederateamericanpride.com/notslavery.html there ya go Hukk  personally my issue wasn't about other countries or thir flags just tired of a battle flag causeing such attacks on Southeners we are not ignorant,stupid nor 99% racist that link goes to someone whos of color and her opinion

[hukk]

The accusations of racism, and division comes with the territory when donning the flag. Though the people who support the flag may not themselves, be racist, they should be aware of what baggage it does bring when displaying it; being responsible and accepting the good along with the bad it carries. It's a heavy burden that people can choose to either walk away from or accept.

Again, I judge those who do display the flag individually. I look at the context in which they display the flag and make my own determinations. You, along with the very, very, few people I personally know who support the flag are not racist. I came to the conclusion long ago, and personally know you do not display it with any malicious intent. I may not agree with your views on how the flag should be viewed, but I'll defend you against those who  label you a racist.

[Brandybee]

I have read this debate with interest and have learned some history from across the pond. I haven’t entered the debate as I felt I did not know enough about what the flag meant.

But actually I do, it represents deep hurt and bad feeling to some and to others it’s just a flag. I know this hurt, it may be different but I know it.

It’s a flag that has shown diabolical treatment to our fellow man and to others it represents the place they come from.
This flag is a symbol, other such symbols exist and will have just as much meaning and strong feeling.

The important thing here, is we look at our history, our sacrifices and the wrongs we have done in the past and learn by it.
You will feel in your soul that your view is right but so will the opposing side.

The thing is to dispel that hate.

We have to accept, that what we are enjoying now was because of those battles and sacrifices. We have the freedom to express our views, to debate our beliefs but ultimately to accept we are all individual and we will never all agree except of course to agree to disagree.

That is our strength, that is where we rise above the wrongs and that is where we claim back our freedoms and find the strength to forgive or move on but not forget.

The flag is important. When you see it flown, don’t be offended. See it as your history is not forgotten, see it as a talking point to tell it, see it, that although you do not like it, it is a freedom that your ancestors have fought or endured and died for.

I remember a young Muslim lad burnt the Union Jack in my country in protest and anger over something he felt strongly over. It was shown on TV all over.  It was meant to insult and invoke strong feeling.

But when you think about it, after the initial anger, he had the freedom to do so in my and his country. My country gave him that privilege and that freedom.  And I learnt that day, not to be angry that he burnt and stamped on the flag I loved, be thankful that he exercised his right to do so in a free country. As much as he could burn his Union Jack, I could fly mine.

My country has been involved in many bad things in our history but many good too.

England and Ireland were at war for many in Ireland wanted to end the British Rule in Northern Ireland. As a consequence mainland Britain was bombed.  Britain called it terrorism. Many were maimed and killed on both sides. Both believed they were right.

The believers in Ireland called them Soldiers fighting for their freedom.  Neither side would budge and so reigned years of terror and hatred and death and destruction. Generation after generation were taught the hate.

No one is right, no one is wrong. For every example you can give for your cause, the opposing side can give a counter example…
The deep feelings go on and on and on and on…

The question therefore was not who was right and who would win. As always in these matters, the question is what price are you willing to pay for peace and not getting into pointless battles that have no end. Remember the examples you have, make them known, listen to the other sides too and educate the future generations.

So it can never happen again.

Britain & Ireland took this stance and following many long discussions and arguments, the Good Friday agreement in December 1998 and St Andrews Agreement in 2006 was reached and although a bumpy ride,  the bombings and killings eventually stopped.
And note the dates, not all that long ago.

Enemies became associates to ensure there was fairness to all sides. Heated debates occurred but in the process, the hatred stopped. Respect even earned but their views always opposed, in most things.

Part of that agreement was Britain let the terrorists free from prison, a sickening sight for some, for they saw murderers released.
Ireland saw their soldiers released and returned home to their families who loved and missed them.

What we have now, is our children enjoying the peace at last but learning our history, forming their own opinions but most of all learning peace is important and playing and laughing together as children should.

History is important but so is Peace. Learn by it, don’t let the anger fester.

Therefore I muse rhetorical questions, What price would YOU pay for peace and to irradiate the inbred hatred and what are YOU prepared to do to help this process?
Are YOU a person who is prepared to do nothing and just bicker and bicker and bicker. If you are, then stand aside, butt out, don’t make the situation worst and let the PEACE MAKERS make the world a happier place to live.

One thing I know for certain, Racism is wrong, be it black, white, British, Irish, whatever. That we all agree on in this debate.

[xShezawolfx]

the one thing brandy all it is,is a confederate battle flag look up the union battle flag of the north would  their be a issue if the south won the civil war? Our kids plege to a flag evey day in school to a battle flag from the north and would the north be condemned for thier hate as its been put ,yes it would because its how children are taught.btw stop bringing turtles into a conversation

[zoerink]

I think each one can have and want her own flag… from my point of view… those are the only flags i am interesting…

End of discussions!!! everyone goes to achat bar and grill… i pay for the beers and mojitos!!!

[hentaiboy69]

Ok, i think a change of subject is needed, so……..i got a very interessing thing to put under the light:

What did you expect by this forum!?

[HisGirlOnly]

I don't think I have any additional needs from forum..
Our moderators, as our link to the powers that be, keep us informed
and give us the chance to voice our ideas and suggestions for
Achat improvement.

I feel that Achat should have informed moderators better before the recent
changes to Achat. We had a lot of questioned that they couldn't answer
Immediately.

We have a great community here with a lot of fun opportunities to
Interact with other members by way of posts and competitions.
Keep up the great work… I love our forum

[leighdeexxx]

http://www.care2.com/causes/yes-the-confederate-flag-is-racist-and-heres-why.html
Here is WHY the rebel flag or the real name confederate flag is a racist symbol to black people and I am black, native american, and white so I have always been raised to know no color! BUT my own family comes from Georgia where that flag is their state flag and even those who live there do not wave it nor celebrate it for they know the TRUE meaning of it and it has NOTHING to do with being Native American- for we are descendants of the Cherokees, Blackfoot, and Choctaw nation and never ever has this been apart of the culture.
This flag is a symbol of many horrid, unnecessary murders, rapes, discrimination, humiliation and much more. This flag will never be a symbol of anything positive for it is waved by those who have in past and present support the past and present behaviors of this flag. I would be no different if a person of German decent had a swastika present as their profile pic. it would offend those who were affected directly or indirectly by those who made it a symbol of hate discrimination, pain, suffering, and other horrid sorted details. I would hope that would not be allowed any more than I think this flag should be allowed. And I will reiterate, I assure you I am NOT the only one who is not pleased with this flag being paraded around like a badge of honor especially when there are idiotic messages that follow it like “putting stars n bars flag in her yard” regardless who it is meant for, is an attempt to antagonize those who know the truth about it and knows you can call it any dressed up name you chose to call it…walks like a duck, quacks like a duck guess what ALL OVER THE WORLD its a duck!  I just felt that since it was expressed about the “good” meaning of it; I felt it my right to bring forth some education to why this is a problem and not just someone being randomly picked on for a ” regular flag” not the case at all. If it was just something I did not like without merit I would have to get over it and not worry past the point its unappealing to JUST me. So I chose to take the time and say this ISNT the case at all for it goes way beyond unappealing or something that just isn't me or what I am into as well as others who might be afraid to speak out about it; for knowing the backlash it could cause them for speaking out. I do not fret such activities for I have no issues with doing what is necessary to handle them in a proper and decent form. Thank you for allowing me to explain the REAL and true reason why this flag is “catching” so much attention.
Sincerely Yours,
LeighDeeXXX!

[xShezawolfx]

leighdeexxx get over it the subject has been changed,btw tell your sister that it was not the years she claims simple we were just coming out of British rule learn history before going on what great great pa said or ma.

[leighdeexxx]

Please reframe from speaking to me or about my sister, if you have something to say about her the grown up thing to do is go to her like an adult and not as a child. Further more I have the right to say what is on my mind, I DO NOT need or desire your permission to do such! SO thank you but I would appreciate no further contact from you as well as my sister! Good day.
LeighDeeXXX

[FoxyRoxxy]

Lady's please take your Personal Dispute Privet .

[leighdeexxx]

I would prefer to be left alone by her and not spoken to or about, I made no mention of her personally in either post that I have made here. I too have the “right” to express mine and many others point of view. And if it was a closed subject I do not understand why its still available and capable being replied to. I just thought if it was a “harmless” post about reasoning and not intended to offend…I too thought it would be just as informative to show the “other side” of the subject as I have mentioned. So I am not here to play tug a war or get into any form of showdown, just trying to utilize my privileges just like everyone else has the ability to do. I am also a beginner here on the forum and I have only posted two things now and replied to a few. So as far as I am concerned my sister (who never comes here ) and I do not wish any further contact as I keep saying with her or her friends! THANK YOU!
LeighDeeXXX

[FoxyRoxxy]

Welcome to the forum
leighdee

You have every right to express your opine  on how you feel about it .
The topic was  changed by a mod  HB  ..

I think it was wrong  of shewolf to post what she did  but  this is  going on to long and its  getting personal 

I would  suggest you take it privet  to work it out or  with a mod and  I am meaning  for you both

Please  don't take this personnel  I also agree a  change of subject was need ..

[xShezawolfx]

it ws tried Roxy but to no avail,the subject was changed and I didn't post till she posted snipeing the flag,yes I take flack but yet to call her out of her name,you can ask Brandy we had a deal that if she removed the racist stuff off her profile and the snipes off her sisters profile then I WOULD remove it but she changed the deal now I would prefer going back to a subject change

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